MM2H - Significant (Expensive!) Changes Ahead!

Won't go into much detail here as I'm out of Malaysia now on a permanent basis and have been for the last 18 months, a decision that definitely turns out to be one of the luckiest I have EVER made.  I relocated from Malaysia for a number of reasons and, though it wasn't one of the main drivers of that decision, the the MM2H visa itself, along with the political situation in Malaysia, did feature in the process. 

The MM2H programme had been waning in its appeal for years IMHO with the removal of the tax free car incentive and, even more worrying, the ever increasing liability for Capital Gains Tax, a dragnet that spread wider and wider over the years I was there going from (something like) 0% liability if you kept your property for over 5 years, to 5% and now 10% after 6 years (but 30% at any time before that)! The way they collect this CGT is both inefficient and unreasonable IMO.  The lawyer retains 7% of the of the agreed purchase price of your property (taken from the 10% deposit) and passes this to the Inland Revenue (LHDN) who keep YOUR money, assess what you owe and, when they EVENTUALLY get round to it, refund the balance into your account!  I ended up having to chase the LHDN for my refund (it took 6 months to get a very significant amount of money back), the RPGT I had to pay being less than 10% of the funds they retained!  Quite who dreamed up this ridiculous, unfair and clumsy method of collecting RPGT I've no idea but, if the LHDN insists on using such a stupid method, at the very least they should process it in a timely manner and not hold on to very large sums of people's money for 6 months!

Breaking news now though is that the MM2H programme has been relaunched after a period of suspension with new requirements (that will also apply to renewals - so much the for promise of the automatically renewable 10 year Pass!) offering now only a 5 year Social Visit Pass (at a cost of RM 500 per year AND a processing fee of RM 5,000!) with all main applicants needing to show the following:

• Pension income of RM 40,000 per month! (up from the previous 10,000); and
• RM 1 million deposited in a Malaysian bank (up from 150K / 300K dependant on age); and
• Must be able to show liquid assets of at least RM 1.5 million; and
• Must spend at least 90 days in Malaysia.
• Minimum age increased to 35.

These requirements have yet to be ratified officially but are correct at the time of writing.  Quite who the government thinks they will attract with these new requirements is beyond me though I very much suspect those who can meet the requirements would not even have Malaysia on their list of preferred countries for retirement, let alone anywhere near the top of it!  Indeed one has to wonder whether they actually want to attract applicants at all, maybe it's just a face saving way of effectively kicking a lot of people out without actually terminating the programme.

So unless you are really dead set on Malaysia and can meet the new requirements I would look elsewhere, like ANYWHERE but Malaysia! The government has shown they really cannot be trusted with regard to their promises to the future and are quite prepared to make sweeping changes, with little or no consideration of what had been announced previously, changes that are likely to impact negatively on a significant number of people who effectively got suckered into believing the proclamations, making significant financial decisions on the basis of them.  In the end, it didn't end up doing what it said on tin!  

Malaysia My Second Home?  You've got to be kidding right?  No thanks, I'll pass! 

This video is worth a look, not so much for the shill like content (he has an agency that assists people with MM2H for a fee so has a vested interest in making this croc sound like it's still a good idea, he also has a very strange idea of quality applicants, anyone with money in his book, regardless of how they got it.  Jerk!) but for the several hundred comments on it:

MM2H - New Requirements Video

There is also an interesting article here:

MM2H article - Expat Go

Drive to Penang / Malaysia from Thailand (Hat Yai / Dannok)

Further to the below post regarding driving into Thailand from Malaysia, this post covers the relatively simpler process of driving back into Malaysia from Thailand.

Upon returning you will inevitably approach down Highway 4 (closer to the border the road is also named Thanon Phet Kasem) which runs through the border town of Dannok and goes right up to the border.  At times this crossing can be very busy with public holidays, Sundays and between the hours of 4-7pm on weekdays seemingly being the times to avoid.  But, as with anything like this, there is a degree of 'pot-luck'.  Sundays will often be VERY busy and chaotic because of the many coach trips that will be returning to the different states in Malaysia.  On the days when it's not busy the whole crossing can be done in 15-20 minutes.  Hit it on Sunday and other busy times and it can take up to two hours with long traffic queues and even longer queues at Immigration.

As you approach Dannok, about 1 km before the border, the road will be closed off ahead and this will detour you through a Customs checkpoint, mostly used for trucks.  It's the same checkpoint as when you entered Thailand.  Merely turn left, follow the signs for your type of vehicle, follow the path to the right and then turn left back onto the road.  There is only the one route to go so you won't get lost.

Now, there are numerous ways in which you CAN (and many people do) do this crossing in terms of how, when and where to park your car but I will describe the process which is, as I understand, the official way and the way which will not create you potential problems.

The things you should have readily to hand are:

1) Passport
2) Thai Immigration Departure Card
3) Carnet Form (Simplified Car Import / Export authority)
4) Copy Vehicle Registration document

In terms of a mental / written checklist, there are 5 things you need to do when exiting Thailand at the border:

a) Return the Carnet form (authorising export of your vehicle), this is VERY important

Then park up your car and:

b) Clear Thai Immigration

Get back in your car and:

c) Clear Thai Customs
d) Clear Malaysian Immigration
e) Clear Malaysian Customs

The process is somewhat simpler than entering Thailand but can still be confusing if you don't know what to expect.

Firstly, it's best to clear your vehicle export.  As you drive into the crossing you will see a number of Thai Immigration kiosks on your left and in front.  To the right of these (kiosks numbered 7, 8 & 9), but behind and after them there is a kiosk marked 'Customs Form Return'.  If the border is very quiet you can often stop at this kiosk or just behind and to the left of it.  It's important to do this as Customs MAY wish to see the vehicle, whether they do or not is a different matter.  Take your Carnet form to the kiosk (it's advisable to also take your copy vehicle registration form and passport).   The Customs officer will rarely wish to check your vehicle and will merely take the form from you.  You should be asked to sign the form when your return it AND sign in a book regarding form return.  Make sure you do both.  Once done, you are clear to proceed to the next steps.

Again, this crossing can be very chaotic at busy times so in my view it's safer to head to the car park before clearing Thai Immigration though many just leave their vehicle where they parked up to return the 'Carnet'.  If you wish to use the proper car park, after returning the Carnet form, drive through past the kiosk and about 50 metres after look for the large car park on the right (this is the same car park used when you enter Thailand).  Take care as you need to cross the path of vehicles entering Thailand and many drivers, especially those of motorbikes, seem to exercise little caution when driving in, probably being as confused as everyone else!  Park up the car and walk back around to the Thai Immigration counters (obviously you need to use the 'Departure' kiosks which are next to the Customs Vehicle Export kiosk you just visited, not the 'Arrival' kiosks for those entering Thailand - believe me, I am told people have done it!).  Furthermore, if the border is crazy busy, I have also driven into this car park before handing in the 'Carnet' form, there should be no problem as the car is not far away if they demand to see it, but if it's THAT hectic, they will almost certainly not be interested.

As you face the passport kiosks from the Thailand direction there is a group of them to the left which have a metal barrier around.  These are intended for foot and coach passengers.  Those to the right (kiosks 7, 8 and 9 again), along the roadway sections, are intended for car / motorbike drivers and their passengers.  At Immigration you merely need to show your passport and return the Immigration 'Departure' card which you will have retained upon entering Thailand.  However, if you are entering Malaysia from Thailand as a visitor (e.g. you are a Thai resident or resident of elsewhere entering Malaysia) you will need to complete a Thai Immigration 'Arrival / Departure Card which can be found at the desks in front of the Immigration kiosks or can be had from the Thai Immigration office to the left of the Immigration kiosks.  Once you (and any passengers) have cleared Immigration, return to the car park to get your vehicle.

You can now drive your vehicle back to the crossing and turn right to head for Thai Customs.  Again, take care when crossing traffic entering the border. Drive slowly through the customs checkpoint as you may actually get stopped here.  They may well wish to check the luggage compartment of your vehicle and/or scan any baggage you have.  At busy times getting stopped is less likely as it just jams up the crossing.

After this you drive straight ahead and approach Malaysian Immigration.  This IS a 'drive through'.  As you approach the Malaysian side you will see the traffic filtered into 2 or 3 lanes.  Again, follow any signage for your type of vehicle and approach the kiosks (cars just drive ahead, whereas trucks and mini-buses are filtered off to the left).  When you see one empty with a green light, just drive up to the kiosk.  There is no need for the driver or passengers to disembark unless asked (you may be asked so that they can (electronically) take fingerprints at the kiosk.  Merely hand your passport and those of any passengers to the Immigration officer and follow instructions.

Directly after the Immigration kiosk (and I mean right next to it) there is a further kiosk.  Here you must stop and pay the toll charge for the section of highway you will use next (RM 3.60), if you have a Touch n Go card you can swipe the reader just under the cashier's window to pay.  After this kiosk you drive ahead and proceed slowly through the Malaysian Customs and follow any instructions there. You may or may not get stopped.

That's all there is to it, as I said, all very simple IF you know what to expect.  However, if I stress just one thing in this post it is this:

Remember to return your 'Carnet' (Simplified Vehicle Import/Export) form AND sign the book at the Thai Customs 'Form Return' (vehicle export)  kiosk BEFORE leaving the Thai side of the border crossing!!

If you need fuel there are three filling stations with a few km of the border crossing and I normally stop at the second which is a Petronas.

Freight Considerations - Arrival in Penang (Pickfords)

Pretty much closing the book on the freight issue for me now my belongings arrived at Penang Port on or around 31 December 2011. Having finalised and collected by MM2H visa I scanned and mailed a copy of this to Pickfords UK on 7 October. As soon as they received it they arranged for my goods to be loaded up and shipped leaving me to merely wait the expiry of the 8-12 weeks delivery time, crossing fingers that nothing electrical or fragile would get broken. As a precaution I had opted for three particular insurance 'bolt-ons'.

Firstly there was insurance against 'electrical derrangement'. If your electrical items such as AV receivers, DVD players and hard-drives get visibly damaged then regular insurance will cover it. However, if they have become non-visibly damaged, perhaps by vibration or heat, and just down work, you will need the 'derrangement cover' to claim. I also added on extra insurance for a few high value items and finally, opted to pay £30 to cover damage to the building they are delivery to. Possibly important if it's a condo.

There were just a couple of minor quirks with the arrangements. First there was an odd method of being billed for storage. I was billed for 4 weeks storage in advance then another 4 weeks which I knew would be two weeks longer than I needed. It was suggested that I pay both bills and that Pickfords would refund the excess two weeks!! To me this was totally bizarre and we eventually agreed I'd pay the storage just before the goods shipped and would pay the precise amount owed. The notification of shipping of the goods was also received only in mid-December and was merely a PDF letter attached to a blank email. Quite unprofessional in my view and the letter suggested that I would have to run around chasing the local agent here, making contact to arrange customs clearance etc. Having complained to Pickfords it was all sorted out at the end of the day and Allied Pickfords in Penang did make contact by mail and kept me fully updated regards to progress. I did feel the letter did not create a good image of Pickfords in some ways as, paying for door-to-door service, I would expect the agent here to be contacting me, not the other way around. The only thing the local agent asked for was a clearer scan of my passport and MM2H visa as the one sent to the by Pickfords UK was somehow degraded.

Once the above glitch was sorted all went very smoothly. After a few days the local agent advised me that my belongings had cleared customs and were ready for delivery. Quick couple of e-mails later and the date and time was sorted. On the day, the delivery crew arrived promptly and were very professional and courteous. I was pleased to see that almost all boxes arrived undamaged and even those that were had seemed to suffer only minor crush damage as a result of some empty cavity at the top of the box. I opted to unpack the boxes myself and indicated this on the delivery receipt forms I was asked to sign.

Until I move to my full-time home I have decided to leave as many of the boxes as I can packed up, especially things like books and such like, otherwise I just need to pack them ALL back up again :-( On that basis there are a few things I might have done differently when packing. Your packer will likely write some kind of content description on the boxes but it will be very generic. As such it would make sense to:

1) Split your belongings perhaps into collections of 'Will be needed', 'Might be needed' and 'Wont be needed' and make a note of the box numbers that cover the groups. That way you should be able to readily identify the things you must have access to straight away.

2) Try to make sure that all components to one item are packed in the same box!! I have come across a box with two small flat screen TVs but no power plugs or remotes!!!! The search continues. Obvious I would have thought to put them in the same box!! Seemingly not.

3) If there are any items that you want to have access to that cannot fit into 'Will be needed' category or if there are several such boxes and you to access a number of items first, make a note of which box they are in. In most cases all such things can go into the same box (es) but in the event that they can't (because of size etc. - the packers are very experienced as to what will fit nicely) it's nice to know where they are.

So all in all, I think Pickfords did a good job and would not hesitate to use them again both for any local move and international would be happy to recommend them to others. The shipping time was around 10 weeks in total and there were no problems this end.

MM2H Visa Collection - Putrajaya (from Penang)

Having been in Penang since 20 July I figured it was high-time to go and collect my MM2H visa. It has to be said that the new location of the MM2H office did make me view the trip with a slight sense of dread but as it turned out is was all misplaced.

The address of the MM2H unit is:

Ministry of Tourism Malaysia,
Level 10,Tower 1, Jalan P5/6,
Presint 5, 62200 W.P. Putrajaya,
MALAYSIA

Now, as can be seen from the post dated 31 July I had managed to get all the documentation I would need prior to collecting the visa (medical report, Security Bond stamping and medical insurance) sorted in Penang so I hoped I would need little time in Putrajaya, once there, to collect the visa. On that basis I decided to save on the cost of a hotel stop in KL (I'm not a great fan of capital cities and was not desperate to stay on this occasion) and do the trip there and back in a day.

I considered flying to KL to be the only real option in this case, given my need to do a round trip in a day and that of course means either flying to KLIA or KL Low Cost Carrier Terminal (LCCT). In deciding, one main considerations for me was how to get from my chosen airport to Putrajaya and with the least amount of hassle and stress. From KLIA one of the two most sensible options was to take the KL Transit (please note, NOT the Ekspress which doesn't stop until KLCC) which stops at Putrajaya/Cyberjaya Sentral (P/C S), Cyberjaya being the IT based 'development area' adjacent to mainly governmental Putrajaya that is home to the Ministry of Tourism, which is about 10 minutes away by taxi. The other option is to take a taxi direct from KLIA at a cost of around RM 65. Putrajaya though is a bit of a nightmare if you don't know your way around however and I figured that a local taxi driver operating out of Putrajaya Sentral may have a better chance of not getting lost, as as happened to at least one MM2H applicant I know. KL LCCT also offers exactly the same options. Grab a taxi and go to Putrajaya direct, again at a cost of RM 65, or buy a ticket for the KL Transit and, again, take a taxi from Putrajaya Sentral. The difference is that with KL LCCT you need to take a 20 minute shuttle bus (which is free when you purchase your KL Transit ticket) to get you to the KL Transit station, Salak Tinggi, which is actually the transit station before KLIA. With KLIA the Transit terminal is on-site. The picture to the right shows (maybe poorly) the rough route to get to the MM2H offices from P/C S. If you Google Putrajaya KL Transit and then look for Presinct 6, below the station and to the left, you will see where the Ministry of Tourism is.

So, what about flights. KLIA does benefit from having slightly easier access to the KL Transit station and of course better direct connection to KL direct (e.g. KL Ekspress) which may or may not be important to you. However, you will pay a premium to fly into KLIA as you will need to use a major airline and not one of the low cost operators such as Air Asia (which flies into KL LCCT) or Firefly (which flies into Subang). Booking 5 days in advance as I was, I would have been able to get a return flight from Malaysia Airlines for RM 378 (inc taxes) and actually that's not too bad. On top of that you will of course need to add the cost of getting to the airport and your connections the other end.

I then looked at the LCCT option. Total cost of a return flight with Air Asia was RM 229, around RM 150 cheaper than the flight into KLIA. Given that the cost of the flight was considerably cheaper, the flight times suited me more and that the Putrajaya connection did not seem to daunting, KL LCCT was the option I chose.

When the big day arrived I took a taxi from my home near Tg Tokong to the airport, with a driver I use often, at a cost of RM 40. At 9am the roads are quite quiet and the trip took us about 40 minutes. Penang airport is still undergoing renovation but finding your way to the departure hall, up the escalator, is not too hard. I had checked in with Air Asia online previously and had the bar code they issue saved to my phone. They have self-service terminals at the airport which SHOULD be able to scan this code and print your boarding pass (I only had hand luggage so would not need to then check baggage also). The machine seemed to struggle with my bar code which MAY have been down to the phone screen protector, I'm not sure. Once you have checked in online however you cannot check-in again using the terminals and I had to use a 'Document Check' desk which only took a few minutes. With hindsight I probably wouldn't check-in online again and would just check-in using the booking code at the terminals leaving less margin for error. Using a bar code to do the same thing seems to just add another needless step. My flight left on time at 11:20 and an hour later, about 12:30 pm I was at KL LCCT.

The rest of the trip was really easy. Walking into arrivals at LCCT there are a number of coach and taxi desks and also the desk marked KL Ekspress. It is this desk that you get the KL Transit tickets. The cost to Putrajaya is just RM 5.50 which includes the free 20 minute coach transfer to Salak Tinggi. I also confirmed that the cost of a taxi to Putrajaya is RM 64.20. Having got my Transit ticket (they give you two, one for the coach and one for the train) I walked straight outside the terminal and across two pedestrian crossings and straight onto the KL Transit shuttle coach. There is a placard which, despite being small and low down, clearly indicates that it's the KL Transit coach stop and the drivers and crews nearby are all helpful, directing anyone unsure. After a short wait the coach set off and 20 minutes later dropped us off at Salak Tinggi (picture left), one of the very clean, tidy and well laid out Transit stations. It was 14 minutes for the next transit so I took the opportunity to grab a cold drink and a couple of savouries at the cafe as you enter the station. After that it was through the automatic barrier (you will need your train ticket to gain access) and across to the platform for the KL bound Transit. Again, helpful and friendly staff are around if you are unsure of your bearings. P/C S is the first stop the Transit train makes and the journey only takes about 5 minutes.

You could equally do this trip to P/C S from KL by taking the Transit (again, not the Ekspress!!) from KLSS towards KLIA at a cost of RM 12.50 and getting off at P/C S.

At P/C S there is an Information Desk and clear signs to the taxi and bus stands. As you will find at many of the larger transport hubs there are taxi coupon desks where you get a voucher for taxi before heading to the rank. The fares are all pre-determined. I could have taken a bus but decided, at a cost of RM 13 to take a taxi. Here is where making my own way to P/C S paid a dividend, the taxi drivers know the area and know exactly where to go. The trip took 10 minutes and the taxi dropped me off at the Ministry of Tourism offices, opposite the Pullman Hotel, at about 2pm. Spot on for the finish of lunch hour.

Total travel time from KL LCCT to Putrajaya was about an hour but it doesn't seem like it because it's so hassle free and the time just flies. Taxis can be a bit thin on the ground around Putrajaya so I did take the 24 hour call-centre number for the main taxi operator which is +60 3 888 4000.

Collecting the visa couldn't have been easier. Straight to the Immigration Desks which are next to the MM2H desks on the 10th floor, hand over the Letter of Aceptance, Security Bond form, medical report and copy of medical insurance, wait for 10 minutes, pay cashier (security Bond + RM90 for each year of your visa which will be tied to passport expiry), done!! There was no FD for me to 'prove' as I had been granted a visa under the 'Offshore' criteria. So, 20 minutes tops. In all honesty I spent much more time chatting to my friend Noor at the MM2H office!!!

After that, it was the return trip. Pointless repeating as it was just a reverse run but with one difference. As I walked out of the MoTour building to wait or call for a taxi (and I did see a couple nearby) I turned right and then right again (bringing you opposite the side of the Pullman Hotel) and saw a 601 bus at the bus stop. I asked if the bus went to Putrajaya Sentral and the driver said yes. So I boarded the bus and paid the 50 sen fare for a 10 minute trip back to the Transit station. All from there was just the same, easy and totally stress-free journey. Again, a total of an hour trip back to KL LCCT, including the waiting time for Transit etc. I got to the airport at 5pm with ample time to eat and then check in for the 6:20pm flight back to Penang.

So, that was my trip from Penang to Putrajaya and back. 11 hours door-to-door and overall a totally stress free and pleasant trip. Cost wise:

Total cost KL LCCT to Putrajaya (return): RM 24.50 (could have been RM 12 as next time I would take the bus from P/C S both ways). Total cost of my round-trip: RM 333.50

There are a few very useful resources I found while planning the options for this trip and they are:

A Wiki entry on Putrajaya which provides some detail on where it is and travelling around it.

The KL Low Cost Carrier Terminal website LCCT website which contains details on travel options from LCCT.

The taxi coupon service Mesra Indah Jayah website with details of costs from LCCT to various places.

MM2H: Pre-visa collection documentation (Penang)

When I returned to Malaysia recently I decided to fly straight to Penang with a view to collecting my visa from KL after a few weeks. This was to prevent the hassle of carting my luggage around from the flight between KLIA and whatever arrangements I might make to get to Penang had I gone to KL to pick up the visa first. I certainly preferred the idea of coming to Penang and then going to KL after, by coach, with only a cabin luggage sized bag.

Taking the Penang option I opted to look at getting as much of the documentation as I could done in Penang prior to going to KL rather than going back and forth around KL to different offices and medical centre. Essentially there were two things to get sorted, the Security Bond (SB) form (which you will need if doing a direct application) and the medical report (RB II).

The SB form is part of the MM2H download pack from the official MM2H site (see under Travel/Visa Links) and you need to get a Hasil stamp from the Post Office (RM 10) before you take it to an Inland Revenue (LHDN) office to be stamped (chopped). I bank with HSBC in Downing Street, Georgetown and, for the sake of ease, will give any directions from there as a reference point.

The Hasil stamp is easy. There is a Post Office right next to HSBC so it's just a case of going in and buying the stamp from one of the counters there. You can either complete the SB form before affixing this stamp but you will certainly need it completed in full before going to the LHDN office. The form is somewhat confusing and in terms of advice the best I can do is refer you to this thread on the MM2H forums which talks about this form at some length. I have a local friend here who acted as the witness for me.

Once I had the Hasil stamp I walked up to HSBC and turned right from Downing Street onto Lebuh Pantai (Beach Street). Walking down Lebuh Pantai you will come to the Immigration office in Penang and I called in there quickly just to run through the SB form with a member of staff to ensure I had it filled in correctly (I chose to fix my Hasil stamp to the form AFTER doing this for obvious reasons). They confirmed I had. Coming out of Immigration there is a 'Chamber of Commerce' building directly opposite. The LHDN office to get the SB form stamped by them ('chopped') is on the 4th floor of this building and if you're not sure of the counter just ask the police who act as security for the unit. At the LHDN desk you will hand over the SB form and will be given another beige coloured form to fill in (which the staff will help you with) and once that is done they will stamp (chop) your SB. There are no charges to pay here and the SB can then be filed away pending your trip to KL.

Once done I decided to get the medical out of the way too. I asked the Police at the LHDN office for the nearest clinic and they directed me to an IMA clinic nearby. Essentially you walk back down Lebuh Pantai, past HSBC on your left, and keep going on the left hand side of the road. You will then come to an AM Bank, almost opposite the junction with Bishop Street. Directly after that there is a building called 21 Bangunan Barkath. If you go in there and take the lift to the 2nd floor the clinic is there. They charge RM 80 for the medical (which is NOT the full medical that is needed for work permits) and you will need form RB II which is available from the MM2H site here. I believe some have got this medical done for RM 50 at some clinics so it's probably a case of checking around as there are many clinics and hospitals around that can likely do it. For the sake of RM 30 though and getting it all done in one go I decided to go with IMA. The whole process took about 20 minutes and that was it. Both the SB and medical sorted in an hour or so and all locally so less running around in KL.

For those who require the services of a Commissioner for Oaths (certification of copy documents etc.) in Georgetown, and in the vicinity of the aforementioned places, there are quite a few scattered along Beach Street but I used the services of a very helpful lady (who is also happy to print material off a USB stick for a very small fee) whose 'shop' is located at 29 Bishop Street. As you walk up Bishop St. from Beach St. look carefully for the shop numbers and her shop is about 75 yds up the road on the left hand side. It is an open fronted shop and you will likely see her sat at her desk. It can be a little hard to spot under the awnings. Be advised also that the operating ours of many such services is roughly between 9:00 or 9:30 am until 4:00 or 4:30pm.

One thing worth considering is that you will need some form of medical cover for an MM2H visa (unless you are 60+ and can get a 'rejection' letter/email from one or more companies) and I have decided to go, for this year at least, with Kurnia (update to follow), a well known local company that is reasonably priced and who provide building and auto insurance also. Many companies will ask for a medical report prior to signing with them and Kurnia at least will accept a copy of the RB II form as proof of medical condition so it's worth taking a copy of the form for that purpose.

HSBC: MM2H Fixed Deposit and Premier Status

This is just a quick update that may be of interest to those contemplating applying for MM2H under the Fixed Deposit (FD) criteria of the MM2H 'Terms and Conditions'. HSBC, as many will be aware, operate Premier status accounts. These accounts offer a range of benefits that differ from country to country but one of the extremely useful benefits is the HSBC 'Global View' system and the facility it offers for Premier customers to move their money from their HSBC account in one country, almost instantaneously, free of charge to any HSBC account they may hold in another country. What can be off-putting for some is the limits that HSBC require you to keep in your portfolio (I stress in your portfolio, so it includes investments and such like, not just on deposit or in a current account) to qualify for the Premier status free of charge (you can opt to join Premier for a monthly fee if you don't qualify). In malaysia the sum required to qualify for Premier status free of charge is RM 200K. Once you are 'Premier' in one country you are automatically 'Premier' in all others.

Now, with MM2H, many applicants need to leave RM 150K per applicant in a FD which is 'Under Lien' to the Malaysian Government. Previously there had been queries around whether this RM 150K on FD would be counted by HSBC towards the RM 200 K needed for Premier status, particularly as it is held 'Under Lien'. Today (18 July) I contacted my ever so helpful Relationship Manager, Cha Pei Loh, at the Georgetown (Downing St) branch of HSBC who confirmed that the FD, despite being held under lien, WILL indeed count towards the Premier status 'criteria funding' of RM 200K. So, for those who consider HSBC Premier to be an attractive proposition, and I certainly do, both in the UK and Malaysia (their service I have to say has been exceptional in my experience), placing the FD with HSBC along with RM 50K of other investment / deposit is one way to consider obtaining it.

Anyone contemplating opening an HSBC Premier account in Georgetown can contact Chai Pei Loh on the following email address and telephone number:

Email address: chaipeicploh 'at' hsbc.com.my

Tel: +60 4 650 3283

MM2H Application Clarifications (2)

Having been advised I have got my MM2H visa I thought I'd clarify just a couple of points that may not be 100% clear from my posts before:

My covering letter was one side and was four paragraphs (and one of those was explaining why the LGC would be coming separately):

1. Who I am, what I did/do (work wise etc.), where my income derived from, how much.

2. Why I wanted to live in Malaysia, where, other snippets (intend to learn Chinese/Bahasa Malay etc.) and desire to integrate etc. etc.

3. The financial criteria I was applying under (on the advice of my MM2H case officer), Govt approved pension in my case.

I left the 4th para off here as it should not be relevant to most, unless your LGC hasn't arrived in time for any personal office visit you may plan. Para 3 consists of a line only so barely qualifies as a para.

In terms of the income/assets, I merely provided evidence of what the SCHEME asks for criteria wise. I figured there was little point in going into other assets etc. chapter and verse but did, on the VERY small Excel gird I did showing converted rates etc, indicate that "To avoid confusion only those assets required to fulfil MM2H criteria have been listed". The case officer smiled and said "good, if they wanted more they'd up the limits, don't confuse things". So essentially it was proof of pension (3 certified salary slip copies) and one bank statement showing the account with an amount that exceeded the RM 350K.

Freight Considerations

As I sit here in an almost empty house (thankfully the buyers are purchasing quite a lot of furniture so I have somewhere to sit!!) I ponder how the last couple of days has gone in terms of packing, removals and such like. I also wonder how a 5' x 4' oak drinks cabinet, all but lit up with a flashing neon sign saying 'Don't forget me' got left behind!!! The air went a little blue when I was hoovering and got to that final corner and saw it sat there and it's probably just a casualty of the sheer exhaustion that can set set in when every waking moment of your days for a couple of months is filled with 'things to do / pack' lists and the resultant inability to relax and sleep properly at times.

First point I think is that I maybe would have liked to rationalise what I was taking to some degree had I had more time. The issue of what to ship to me really falls at two ends of the spectrum in terms of cost effectiveness. You either take almost everything in a full 20 foot container which, at AROUND £5,500 (at the time of writing) can work out quite cheap. At the other end there is the smaller shipment at around the 180 - 220 cu ft (which is about 35-45 boxes) mark where it can work out very cost effective if you are shipping a fair amount of high value goods (AV stuff in particular which, should you decide to purchase locally at your destination, would likely cost almost the same as in the UK). A few units at around the £250 to £500 mark and it very quickly covers the cost of shipping v replacing at destination, essentially allowing you to ship the other boxes for free. This is the option I chose.

Whichever you opt for will of course need to add the cost of insurance to that and Pickfords have two methods of calculating this:

a) Per item: where each item is priced up and then totalled

b) Overall cost: Where you estimate the value based on a £ per cubic foot basis (and Pickfords recommend around £40 pcf as a good average

In addition, you can add bolt-ons for such things as 'electrical derangement', mildew and premises waiver (where they will insure the property you have the goods moved to in case they accidentally damage it - at about £30 per property this seems good value especially if you are renting.

All in all I was most impressed with the Pickfords team at the UK end. They arrived on time and literally wrapped and boxed every single item and spend around 6 hours doing it, labelling each box and creating a very comprehensive inventory. They also agreed to store the goods in the UK port for up to 6 weeks free of charge while I find a rental (hopefully in MUCH less time than that!!!) and sort my MM2H visa (providing Pickfords with the copy they will need prior to shipping).

The only thing I regret is that I didn't have the time to rationalise what I was taking MUCH more. The house selling so quickly (a matter of days) was a blessing in many ways but, the anticipated 4-6 month wait given the state of the UK market would have given me much more time to have been MUCH more ruthless with what I have taken. Essentially I would have thought long and hard about hobby related items, and whether it is either feasible or desirable to do those hobbies in Malaysia, and also the vast amounts of clutter that you think is essential to your life but is it really (clothes, books, electrical goods, DVDs etc etc etc). Problem is some of this stuff is too costly to just dump and to sell it takes time. That's the time I didn't have. My friend Watertown Wanderer made some very relevant comments in his blog Retired in Malaysia (the link to the current Blogger version of this site can be found under 'Other Links') about just this issue and it does give food for thought.

Everyone is different and our needs are all personal but as a general rule I would say think long and hard about what you REALLY need and want you just want to take, think about it VERY early and and start to ditch what you want at the earliest opportunity so by the time comes to pack up your are down to your leanest horde!! This is one of the 'regrets' (maybe that is too strong a term) that I have about the whole process. I was paranoid about ditching all the stuff that I thought I might need to give me something to do just in case the house didn't sell. To a degree it's understandable but it back-fired somewhat. At the end of the day though it's nothing critical but I did need to bail out of quite a pricey hobby in terms of investment right at the last minute leaving quite a bit to for a very very dear friend of mine to do on my behalf in terms of selling it off. I did stress I'd just cut my losses and dump it but the offer was made to sell it off gradually over the next 12 months. At a value of a few thousand I am very grateful indeed.

So it's all going well enough at the moment. In summary I'd think hard, ditch early and ship as little possible making as cost effective as possible by shipping small higher value items in with the load. Pickfords have so far been outstanding and I look forward to a few days rest (albeit looking at a laptop, Kindle or 4 walls!!!) and the next leg of the adventure.

MM2H Office Relocation - Putrajaya

Upon speaking to my MM2H case officer today I was advised that the MM2H office will relocate in its entirety to Putrajaya on 21/22 July with operations becoming effective from 26 July. As of that date there will be NO MM2H office/facility in KLCC at all.

Once I have further details of precise address etc I will post them up here.

Addendum:

The below address for the new MM2H office is copied rather unashamedly from a post by Scott from the very good MM2H Forum:

Level 10,

Tower 1,

Lot 5G2,

Precinct 5 Putrajaya

Medical Insurance - MM2H Requirement (update)

I continue to ponder the subject of medical insurance which is one of the criteria you need to fulfil before you will be granted an MM2H visa. Now it has to be said that there are a two ways to look at this. Either you go for the bare minimum in order to satisfy the requirement for the visa (I'll perhaps label this as 'Qualification Insurance') or you go for medical cover that actually provides good coverage for you in the event of needing it, perhaps even with outpatient, dental and repatriation included. It's all a bit of a minefield really but at the end of the day I think it's a a case of you get what you pay for.

'Qualification Insurance' is the route that I have seen a number of references to in various forums (I always think the term fora just looks plain wrong - sorry) where people have used maybe holiday cover, or even cover provided by some of the premium bank accounts, to satisfy MM2H requirements. In many cases of course if you are 60 years old or above the requirement will be waived if you get a 'rejection' letter or e-mail from one or more insurance providers (many of whom will not take on new business from customers 60 years old or more). The problem with this approach for me is that many of these policies are actually only for holiday cover and I suspect there may well be questions asked should you try to claim and it surfaces your 'holiday' in Malaysia has been rather longer than one might expect particularly, in the case of cover linked to bank accounts, where the bank has been sending your correspondence there for a few years!!! Indeed in some cases, if you read the small print, these policies are only applicable if you reside in the country where you opened the account. As a stop-gap when you first arrive in Malaysia though, at least until such stage as you can decide on what levels of cover you want and a suitable provider, it is probably a viable contender.

Another option for 'Qualification Insurance' is to utilise one of several 'cheap and cheerful' companies that sell policies that will perhaps offer the bare minimum of coverage but be sufficient to get that tick in the box for the visa. Some of these policies can be had for as little as RM 400. I suppose they may well be suitable for those who would rather adopt the approach that if something happens they will either pay for it when it does (possibly using monies that they put aside each month rather than pay to an insurance company) or even repatriate themselves for attention in their home country. This is of course an option but for me it's a little too high-risk. You never know what's round the corner so to speak and if something happens that requires you to have maybe urgent, expensive and/or prolonged treatment the bills can rack up fast, very fast!! Self-repatriation of course is also only an option provided you are in a position to do it.

I have largely ruled out going for 'Qualification Insurance' and plan to opt for a policy which does provide a decent degree of cover and, most importantly, actually provide a good and reliable service if and when you need it. This is VERY important as some are clearly MUCH better than others in this regard.

I have of course already posted the detail of a policy provided by Hong Leong and I may well end up going for this policy. In any event it provides a good baseline for comparison and, once I get to the stage of selecting I'll revisit that post to compare the policies in finer detail. In the meantime I have narrowed the field down quite a bit. Interestingly, one recurring piece of advice I do get is to use an 'offshore' or international provider as often the service will be better. How true this is I'm not sure and again, it's something I need to look into.

Below are some of the companies I have looked at and plan to explore in greater detail:

AIA: Many of my friends in Penang use AIA and, along with Great Eastern and Prudential, they seem to be one of the popular providers. It will be interesting to see what their premiums and level of cover are. One suspects they will not be at the cheaper end but the service and cover should hopefully reflect that.

Allianz: Couple of people suggested this company to me but I have discounted them at the moment, simply because the online quote for cover was astronomical at over £3,000 with outpatient, dental and repatriation and only dropping by about 40% for basic!!  

Kurnia: This seems to be a very popular provider with many expats and their policies seem very reasonable. At the moment it is one of the major contenders for me and I need to explore in some depth what their service record is like.

Great Eastern: Not looked at these yet. As I said above, often mentioned by local people when I mention the subject of medical cover.

Tokio Marine: This seems to be a popular provider whose costs are quite reasonable but I have read recently of people facing difficulty in trying to get a quote. A bit off putting I must say.

Prudential: Yet to check out the premiums and levels of cover.

William Russell: This will often be thrown up by search engines in the UK if you are looking for medical cover. On first impression the cover looks good but, at a price of £1,596 for one year, again, higher end.

Finally, for now, I would thank the user PakMike on the very useful MM2H Forums for suggesting another company to me, a French company called April Mobilite (now I believe rebranded as April International) who have their Asia Expat policy. I have obtained a quote from both a UK and KL based agent and both come in at the same (which is useful to know in that the commission the agents get, at least in this case, doesn't affect the customer cost, or at least doesn't affect the cost on a differing basis depending on country of purchase.

Both the UK and KL agents got back to me VERY quickly by email (within an hour) and both quote the same prices in US $. Converted to UK £ the cover comes out at roughly:

1) £886 for basic cover

2) £1,176 (inc. dental and outpatient)

Repatriation can be added at around £173 to either.

From what I've looked at so far medical insurance seems to fall into three bands price wise. That for 'Qualification Insurance' where I have a feeling that claiming might be somewhat problematic, a mid-level band of between RM 1-3,000 per year from some of the larger providers where it seems the level of cover is better, PROVIDED the service is up to scratch and finally the premium end where the price indicates that the cover and service would be first class. What I need to explore is just how much of a service gap there is between mid-range and premium as the difference in premiums can be considerable.

A final consideration for me is the use of an agent. In some cases you can take these policies out online and direct but from what I've seen it doesn't affect the price if you use an agent. At one point I was tempted to jump and book cover with April Mobilite from the UK but decided that, as the agent prices are the same, booking through an agent in KL who would a) be in the local time zone in the event of need and b) with whom there will obviously be no language difficulty was a better option. I may still decide to go with April Mobilite as the cover looks very good and they seem to have a good reputation. There is a concern that cover and service from policies costing around the RM 1-3,000 mark may not be so good but I need to check out the extent to which that is true as it may also be that the sheer size of some of these companies may enable them to provide the same cover and service for a lower premium. I will update further in due course.

Breathes a sigh of relief!!!

Upon return to the UK I found my LGC here waiting for me and duly sent it off (both parts) to the MM2H Centre by 'Airsure'. This is a Royal Mail air-mail 'tracked and signed for' delivery service that only operates to certain designated countries (those able to offer tracking and signed for receipt and for you to be able to follow progress online). I sent the documents off on 24/5/11 and sat back with a slight sense of dread mainly because I had had to send the original, this certificate takes up to 40 days to get (so getting a replacement would not be easy) and it was the one thing that could cause me some problems if it went adrift, didn't get delivered or failed to get married up with my file.

On 28/5/11 I checked online to find it was marked 'out for delivery (Malaysia postal service)' and on 30/5/11 it was marked delivered . Bearing in mind the importance of the document however, I contacted my case officer (Noor) at the MM2H office today (would have done it before but the internet and thus Skype etc. had been down for three days) to be told that she had received the certificate and placed it in the file. On the basis that the delivery of this document completed the file it would be fair to say that my application date was 30/5/11 as you can't really count the 10 days before during which the LGC was missing, making the file incomplete. So now I can relax, sit back and wait

So, quite impressed with the Airsure service and I have to say that the girls in the MM2H are fabulous to deal with. My case officer is very, very friendly, charming, very helpful and even today it was nice that we spent more time chatting about all manner of things completely unrelated to the application etc. Look forward to seeing her when next in KL (soon I hope - REAL soon )

Medical Insurance (to satisfy MM2H requirement)

While I was in Penang I met the very charming Elane Goh through my good friend Ken at No Eyed Dear. Elane is a financial consultant whose business portfolio includes medical health cover (insurance). This type of cover is a requirement for many MM2Hvisa applicants so I was particularly keen to hear about the policy offered by Hong Leong Assurance. Hong Leong is one of the major financial institutions there and I met several local people who have such cover with them.

The name of the policy is HLA MedGLOBAL IV and, as with all such policies, cover and benefits varies according to the premiums you pay which will vary on account of gender and age. There are three levels of cover which MM2H applicants can avail themselves of which are identified by the codes MGIV 200, MGIV 300 and MGIV 400. Taking the lowest premium policy (MGIV 200) I have listed below the main details of the cover provided. Where a number of days is listed this always refers to the number of days per single disability:

• Hospital Room and Board (up to 150 days per disability): RM 200 / 300 / 400 (*see below re explanation of different rates)
• Daily cash payment (as a result of hospitalisation due to an accident on a Malaysian Highway): RM 200 / 300 / 400 *
• Daily cash allowance at Government Hospital: RM 100 / 150 / 200 *

In all cases below the cover is for "reasonable and customary charges" unless specified.

• Intensive Care cover (up to 75 days):
• Lodger expenses (up to 150 days):
• Hospital Supplies and Services:
• Surgical Fees:
• Anaesthetist Fee:
• Operating Theatres:
• In Hospital Physician Visit:
• In Hospital Physio:
• Pre Hospital Diagnostic Test:
• Organ Transplant:
• Day Surgery benefit:
• Ambulance Fees:
• Govt Service Tax: 5% of room and board benefits
• Emergency Accidental Outpatient Treatment:
• Emergency Accidental Dental Treatment:
• Outpatient Physio:
• Outpatient Cancer Treatment:
• Outpatient Kidney Dialysis:

• Home Nursing care (180 days per lifetime): RM 60 / 80 /100
• Annual Policy Limit: RM 120,000 / 180,000 / 240,000
• Aggregate Term Limit: RM 600,000 / 900,000 / 1,200,000
• Emergency Evacuation (repatriation): 150,000 (all same)

* As your level of cover increases (e.g. MGIV 300 and 400) the main effect is to increase the payments due under the different levels of cover which I have separated by the '/' marker

Clearly these details are not exhaustive and full reference would need to be made to an individual policy/contract but they give a good indication of cover. I plan to compare these against other main providers such as Great Eastern, Prudential and AIA. As an example of the premiums I have listed below the annual premiums payable (according to current literature) for males/females in two different age bands (note that new policies can only be taken out up to 60 years of age for both men and women) for the three levels of cover MGIV 200, 300 and 400 respectively.

Male aged:

51 - 55: RM 2,193.79 / 2,974.92 / 3,693.74
56 - 60: RM 2,685.61 / 3,640.33 / 4,519.39

Female aged:

51 - 55: RM 2,125.63 / 2,869.35 / 3,560.89
56 - 60: RM 2,424.47 / 3,264.81 / 4,049.56

This is the first policy I have had chance to look at in detail and it seems quite comprehensive and reasonable though I do have further comparisons to make. I know some choose not not to take such cover, or at least choose to use the coverage provided by the medical component of free travel cover given with many bank accounts. Something to ponder really as, while that approach may satisfy the criteria, the question is what happens if you get hospitalised or need protracted treatment and your bank finds out you are not actually on holiday but semi-resident and refuses to pay? Expensive times potentially. You could of course save the money yourself each month, another option, one the criteria to get the visa is satisfied. Much to ponder!!

For anyone interested in this particular policy you can contact Elane direct for further details on: elanegsl 'at' gmail.com (address written this way to prevent spam bots from getting it, just substitute the 'at' for @)

MM2H Application Clarifications

Once back in KL over 16 to 20 May I decided to get the MM2H application in and sorted. These few snippets should be read in conjunction with the MM2H post of Thursday 7 April as I was able to clarify some queries with the very helpful Noor Zaliza while I was there. The MM2H processing office is situated on the 23rd floor at the Putra World Trade Centre (PWTC) which is about 10-15 minutes in a taxi from the KLCC area at a cost of about RM 15 in an ‘Executive’ (blue) cab. The taxi drivers all know the building so you just need to ask for PWTC. You will need your passport or some other form of ID as there is a police control point in the PWTC entrance from where you will need to collect a visitor pass. The hours of operation of the MM2H office can be found on their very helpful website and at the time of writing are 07:30 - 17:30 with lunch between 1pm -2pm on Monday to Thursday but 12:15 - 14:45 on Fridays.

Key things I got clarified on the visit to MM2H

1. The checklist that forms part of the bundle MUST be submitted with the application. You should tick off the boxes as you attach the items and they will use that form to cross check it all AND endorse that all is in order once they get your application.

2. Covering Letter: It is good to explain the reasons as to why you want to join the programme and what appeals about Malaysia etc. In addition, I was applying under the criteria of having a pension of in excess of RM 10,000 each month (wherein you do NOT then need to leave an FD of RM 150,000). Noor advised that I inserted the following at the end of my letter:

“If my application is successful I would wish to utilise “offshore finance” as my financial criteria”

Otherwise they will assume you plan to open an account with an FD and may issue the visa on that basis. It thus seems a good idea to clarify in your covering letter precisely which criteria you are applying under - 'Fixed Deposit' or 'Government Approved Pension Fund'.

3. The Letter of Good Conduct LGC can be up to 12 months old at the time of submission. It DOES NOT need to be (and has NEVER needed to be) under 21 days old as has been suggested elsewhere, possibly because of a third party (agent) applying their own criteria. One of those areas where it is clearly advisable to check with the organ grinder and not the monkey. I should have checked this out earlier as, had I done so, I could have confirmed that this was a completely bogus requirement and applied for my LGC earlier, allowing me to take it to Malaysia and hand in all the papers together, instead of having to forward it on separately. Internet forums can be useful but lesson learned in this case, not all the information posted, regardless of how well intentioned, can be relied upon to be accurate, especially when there seems to be no audit trail as to where the info comes from and/or it is not coming from those who call the shots (MM2H / Mo Tour in this case)!!! Lesson learned!!!! For UK citizens this will be in the form of a police subject access certificate (costing £10) and you MUST submit the original. For UK applicants I would STRONGLY suggest that you apply for your LGC AT LEAST 2 months before the date you intend to submit/use it, for other applicants your turn round times for the LGC maybe longer (or shorter if you are lucky) and this needs to be taken into consideration.

4. The actual application form needs to be witnessed. This can be any person from any country but if a non-Malay national does it they need to put their passport number on the form. If it is a Malay national (I grabbed the Head of Security at the hotel) they only need to put their Malaysian ID card number.

5. Within the downloadable document bundle there is a Social Visit Pass application form (IM.12). This is a little confusing as you may not be quite sure what boxes to tick at the bottom of the form. At the top it’s quite easy, type of pass is “Social” and for new applicants it’s ‘New for application type. What was made clear though is that the boxes at ‘Section D’ DO apply to the MM2H visa. Those using agents may well find they tick these boxes on your behalf BUT if doing a direct application, where the form says “Visa Requirement” (Question 14) you tick ‘YES’ and also you also tick the box “Type of Visa” (Question 15) for “Multiple Entry”. Some have been of the view that Section D applies to different types of visa. IT DOES NOT. While it also does not stipulate this in the pack, three of your 4 photographs should be attached to the 1 + 2 copies of the IM.12, the other being attached (glued) to your application form.

6. The download pack contains a Financial Authority form (for MM2H to check with your bank re financial criteria should they feel the need). This form has a coloured crest on and contains details of the legislation under which the form is created. This is THE WRONG form and should not be used. A simpler and fully black/white (e.g. no crest) version is available from the MM2H office and one would hope their online pack will be updated soon.

One of the requirements is to submit certified copies of several documents such as pay slips, passport details page and bank statements (unless in the case of statements you are submitting originals). You can get this done in your own country but as I was in Kuala Lumpur to visit the MM2H offices I decided to get it done there. I did a quick Google for “Commissioner of Oaths near PWTC” and came up with the following company:

Rajah, Daryl and Loh
18th Floor
Wisma Sime Darby
Jalan Raja Laut
Kuala Lumpur
Tel: 03 2694 9999

Having given them a quick call explaining what I needed they told me to just call in, again, they close for lunch between 1-2pm. Their COO is a very nice guy called Mr Ideraju and he did all my documents (6) in about 10 minutes at a charge of RM4 per document. Very reasonable I thought. The beauty of using this firm is that the building is VERY well known to taxi drivers, is easy to get to and is only a few minutes from PWTC.

If you need any photocopying doing you can also walk out of the Sime Darby building main or side entrance, turn left and there is a row of shops on the main road, near the 7/11 with several printers/copiers who charged me about RM3 for about 20 copies. It’s literally a 2 minute walk.

Many people I know have used agents to assist with the application process and that is clearly a personal choice. The problem for me is that, whether you use an agent or not, you will need to put together ALL the papers yourself anyway and once you’ve done that you will just pay the agent to submit it for you. Some will also praise the hand-holding service agents offer Malaysia but again I think it depends I think on how resourceful and/or confident you may be. For me, grabbing a cab and saying “Sime Darby, Jalan Raja Laut please” and then “PWTC please” didn’t seem too taxing and cost about RM25. The taxi even waited (I paid the first fair and he switched the meter back to flag fall charge rather than me paying waiting time) outside Sime Darby until I was done. Whole, thing, start to finish, 2 hours, done and that included printing off statements and a letter at the hotel Business Centre. Having clarified some of the issues with MM2H I would be just as happy to submit the papers by post AND to return and get the other issues sorted upon collecting the visa (e.g. medical).

MM2H - Direct Application

I have previously mentioned the option to either do a direct application for an MM2H visa or use an agent. An agent will charge upwards of RM 3,300 for a single applicant and this figure can rise, in some cases substantially, dependant on which agent you use and which level of service you opt for (in some cases, for instance, they offer a 'guided' service when you visit Malaysia to finalise your visa which can be useful if you are perhaps concerned about how to get to the various places you have to visit such as a bank to pay a security bond and a suitable place to get your medical done). Whichever option you go for there is a substantial amount of paperwork to be prepared/gathered and you will have to do all the 'leg work' on this whether you use an agent or not. On that basis, personally, I saw little added value in using an agent and decided to go the direct application route. One distinct advantage an agent will have is seeing what the MM2H office accepts and rejects and they can build up a level of expertise is that area, helping to make sure you get it right first time. The forms are however relatively straight forward and, as I am visiting for a holiday anyway and am thus able to visit the MM2H office to discuss the application, I am content to do it myself.

The MM2H site (see 'Useful Links') provided precise details of the documents that are needed to apply and as these may change over time I would refer you to the MM2H 'Direct Application' page to check what these are. One of the links they provide is to download an application and this is a composite document that actually includes (at the time of writing:

• An individual/spouse application form
• A 'Child - under 21' application form
• IM.12 - Social Visit Pass application
• List of rates for Security Bond (by country of applicant)
• Authority to verify financial information
• Security Bond Form (not needed for application)
• RB I - Medical Self Declaration Form
• Application guidelines and checklist

As I went through the documents I did come across a number of points upon which I sought some clarification from the MM2H forum site from people who had been through this before. Before providing details of those points I will re-iterate some other useful points from another post on that site which might be useful as general principles:

a) They place a lot of importance on your reason for wanting to stay in Malaysia. That should be a big part of the cover letter.

b) Whilst the application asks for 4 photos and seperately it lists 4 forms that require a photo (1 application and 3 IM12 forms), it doesn't state that you should paste a photo on each form. You should. I know it sounds obvious however you never really know with these government offices.

c) Whilst they don't ask for a table containing a summary of your financial status, you should do one. You should list your various income sources, your liquid assets- cash, FD's, shares etc. and your real assets- property etc. In my case however I merely listed those assets that were set as MM2H qualification criteria on the basis that those are all that is needed and the less potential for confusion you introduce, I think, the better.

d) Whilst they don't state it, the checklist of requirements (which is pages 8-9 of the application form) should be the first pages of your application submission.

Now, onto the specific points I raised with regard to the bundle of application forms (and the below takes into account the responses):

1. Where forms have something which is not applicable (e.g. employment when you are retired) I intend to fill these in with "NOT APPLICABLE" rather than leave blank or putting "N/A" (which might not compute!!)

2. The declaration on page 4 has a space for a witness, together with their passport number? It seems that this can be done by anyone. I suppose you could even use your spouse but, rather than get a rejection on this basis, I plan to use a friend who lives nearby.

3. The IM12 Social Visit Pass says at the bottom "This form must be typed". I don't even know anyone who owns a museum piece typewriter, let alone uses one!!! Apparently others have submitted this form handwritten so I intend to do the same. It would perhaps be useful if MM2H made these available from their site in 'Word' rather than 'PDF' format if they insist on them being typed.

4.Again on the IM12 it asks for says "Details of Sponsor in Malaysia". This should be marked "NOT APPLICABLE".

5. Final IM12 one, under Item D it asks about your "Visa Requirement" and whether you need "Multiple" or "Single Entry". At this stage I am assuming this is a "YES" and for a "Single Entry". I plan to take my application to Malaysia when I visit and tis is one of the things I will clarify.

6. The Security Bond form is part of the application download bundle but is there for convenience only at this stage as you do not submit this with your application. If your application is accepted you fill this in and take it with you when you visit Kuala Lumpur to get deposit the bond and get the visa.

7. There are some documents included which you can strip out of the bundle of papers if they are not relevant to your application such as the list of charges for the SB and separate forms for 'under 21' year olds.

8. The form for medical self declaration which the application checklist shows as RBII is actually an RB I (and this is the form the download bundle contains). The form RBII is the form you have completed by a medical practice in Malaysia, again at the visa collection stage.

9. The download bundle also includes a form of "bankers authority letter" giving the MM2H office the authority to verify your liquid asset details etc. should they so wish (though I suspect in the form it is writtenwritten, and without proof of authority/identity, a UK bank would refuse to respond to) and starts off "Whereas on...............I/we etc etc". In the space following "Whereas on" section I intend to insert the date.

10. Some confusion seems to have crept in over a suggestion that the "Letter of good conduct" (LGC) must be less than 21 days old when it is submitted with the application to MM2H. This emanated from a MM2H agent as a stipulation to one or more of their clients and it seems this is complete rubbish and is one the AGENTS's requirements rather then the MM2H Centre. For me, the process is burdensome enough as it is without agents adding their own complications and creating yet further pressure and false deadlines and constraints for applicants.

11. Finally, on page 2 of the application, despite my mailing address being the same as the permanent address , I still intend to complete this in full. Again, easy enough one might think, but government offices seem to have a knack of deciding things are a problem and any one of the options could be 'wrong' where their admin/systems are concerned. I figure that if it is filled in there should be no problem.

Whilst I may not be able to finalise my application in Malaysia (thanks to my reading too much into the LGC 21 day 'rule' and failing to check with the MM2H office in a timely manner meaning I now may not get it in time) I do intend at least to call into the MM2H offices and go through my application with them. If, on the basis of that visit, any of the above changes, or indeed any further advice/guidance is given, I will return to this post and edit it rather than have multiple posts about the same thing which can lose people and get confusing as to what replaces what.

MM2H - Copy Document Certification & LGC

Had some good news today. The MM2H visa application process requires you to provide certified copies of some documents (passport personal details page and salary slips re pension etc. in my case). So I contacted a solicitor I have before when I made a Will, expecting the charges to be between £20-30 per document, and was pleasantly surprised to hear that he would do this for free!! Good news indeed and in stark contrast to some of the prices for this kind of thing to be done in the UAE, the worst example was the British Embassy who charged £30 to certify a copy of a degree certificate!!!! He further advised that even to get the documents 'sworn' would only be £5 each.

I'd have done this all in Malaysia had the timing been right but for a variety of reasons it will be 8th may before I can a apply for the MM2H and tying it all up with the letter of good conduct (LGC) which must be no more than 21 days old (see below re addendum to this post) when you submit it makes co-ordinating everything with my departure date of 19 April difficult. As an aside, this LGC has caused a degree of confusion for some British MM2H applicants but it is clear that at the time of writing a UK police "Subject Access Request" (SAR) is acceptable at a cost of £10 and is available through your local police force. The certificates are actually provided by the ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) Criminal Records Office (ACRO) but are applied for locally. The forces for ACRO provides this service are listed, together with more information about the SAR, here.

Other options to getting the certification done are, as above, in Malaysia itself and also at the Malaysian Embassy in London.

Addendum: The issue of the LGC needing to be less than 21 days old at the time of submission emanated from from correspondence received by one or more applicants from an agent and it seems that this was one of the agent's requirements, not the MM2H office. This is thus one of those situations where too much research (e.g. into historical applications) can throw you off track. I enquired directly to the MM2H office and had a reply from another agent indicating that the LGC is valid for 1 year from date of issue.

Visas

One of the big plusses for me with Malaysia is their visa programme. For those able to meet the criteria (see here) the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme as far as I can see is quite unbeatable in terms of what it offers. I won't go into the specifics as these of course can change over time but the main points for me are:

• A ten year renewable residence visa
• Minimal costs involved for what you get (albeit the criteria are getting more demanding)
• The ability to purchase property without strings attached (subject to minimum rates)
• No tax on pensions remitted to Malaysia

There are other 'incentives' which are publicised too such as tax free importation of a car (cars seem to be quite expensive and but I'm not sure I'd use this incentive option) and the ability to work part-time etc.

At the time of writing you can either apply for the visa yourself or use a recognised agent such as Joy Stay (which seems well thought of and popular). I pondered using an agent for a long time, costs are actually not too bad but you do need to put in a lot of effort yourself in getting the documents together which you will need to do whether you use an agent or not. The fee for a single applicant using Joy Stay is, at the time of writing, 3,300 MYR (Malaysian Ringgit) which, again at time of writing is £666. With self application you do need to pay a 'Security Bond' of 1,500 MYR but you do get this back if ever you decide to leave the programme.

I intend to go the self-service route and will post and overview of the main points that I have discovered, and any others that surface, closer to the time the application is made and hopefully approved. I won't reiterate the terms and conditions or the details of documents required as these are posted on the official Malaysian MM2H site and may change over time. What I will do though is post any specific details around what worked and did not work for me in getting the visa.

I must say that one of the most useful sites I found in terms of the MM2H application is the MM2H forum mentioned in a previous post. Membership of this consists not only of people interested generally in MM2H and Malaysia but also of those who have been, and are going, through the process of MM2H visa application. For me it is an essential read for any applicant and thanks must go to Scott for his efforts on this site and for the help he has given me personally.

Some useful links:

• MM2H Official Site
• MM2H Forums
• Joy Stay (visa application agency)